Comments on: Lazy and Uninspired http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/ Efficiency is the straightest path to hell.* Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:43:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Joshua http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6589 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:50:00 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6589 I assume you're asking about the MFTE. The way it works, and this is rental I'm referring to, 20% of the units are priced to be affordable to those making 80% of the area's median income (or 90% for two bedrooms). In exchange for maintaining this 20% "affordable" developers receive a property tax exemption for 12 years. I'm not as familiar with the homeownership component of MFTE, but I believe it gives buyers that fall into slightly higher median income categories property tax exemptions for 8 years, allowing them to afford more (but, to your point, doesn't incent developers to lower prices). I think MFTE is better for rental. To the larger point, though, it's a small tool in what should be a larger toolbox to help provide affordable housing for both renters and homeowners. I assume you’re asking about the MFTE. The way it works, and this is rental I’m referring to, 20% of the units are priced to be affordable to those making 80% of the area’s median income (or 90% for two bedrooms). In exchange for maintaining this 20% “affordable” developers receive a property tax exemption for 12 years. I’m not as familiar with the homeownership component of MFTE, but I believe it gives buyers that fall into slightly higher median income categories property tax exemptions for 8 years, allowing them to afford more (but, to your point, doesn’t incent developers to lower prices). I think MFTE is better for rental. To the larger point, though, it’s a small tool in what should be a larger toolbox to help provide affordable housing for both renters and homeowners.

]]> by: Matt the Engineer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6572 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:01:33 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6572 Joshua, what are the developers doing that make these units "affordable"? Selling them for less? Unless they're smaller or lower quality than other units, this is just a windfall for the first buyers that show up - they certainly won't sell for under market value. Joshua, what are the developers doing that make these units “affordable”? Selling them for less? Unless they’re smaller or lower quality than other units, this is just a windfall for the first buyers that show up - they certainly won’t sell for under market value.

]]> by: Joshua http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6564 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:37:57 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6564 And, Dan: love the picture, and the irony. And, Dan: love the picture, and the irony.

]]> by: Joshua http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6563 Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:37:16 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6563 Size is certainly a factor in affordable housing, but primarily for singles, or early couples. When you start raising a family, it becomes increasingly difficult to make that 500 sf condo work. And the downtown isn't built for families yet. I agree with Wes - the best way to make affordable housing happen is to incentivize it. They just passed a new MFTE program aimed at doing that, but it's limited. There are two major things the city could do to facilitate this: create a "fast track" zoning system, ideally performance based, that prioritizes certain types of projects. Allowing a developer to shave off 3-6 months from the entitlement process saves a lot of money and helps certain types of projects pencil. Second, grant TIF authority to cities and enable a more empowered public development authority that has the access to federal and state funds to enable this type of thing to happen. Actually, this last one is a state task, but unfortunately we have a speaker who refuses to even look at TIF legislation. I think he has good intentions, but the reality is that if we want to empower cities to fully shape their future, Chopp's gotta go. As an aside - I don't think anyone would argue that plastic bags are more important than housing. But waste is an issue, too, and passing that legislation is a good political step for a lot of reasons. Size is certainly a factor in affordable housing, but primarily for singles, or early couples. When you start raising a family, it becomes increasingly difficult to make that 500 sf condo work. And the downtown isn’t built for families yet.

I agree with Wes - the best way to make affordable housing happen is to incentivize it. They just passed a new MFTE program aimed at doing that, but it’s limited. There are two major things the city could do to facilitate this: create a “fast track” zoning system, ideally performance based, that prioritizes certain types of projects. Allowing a developer to shave off 3-6 months from the entitlement process saves a lot of money and helps certain types of projects pencil. Second, grant TIF authority to cities and enable a more empowered public development authority that has the access to federal and state funds to enable this type of thing to happen. Actually, this last one is a state task, but unfortunately we have a speaker who refuses to even look at TIF legislation. I think he has good intentions, but the reality is that if we want to empower cities to fully shape their future, Chopp’s gotta go.

As an aside - I don’t think anyone would argue that plastic bags are more important than housing. But waste is an issue, too, and passing that legislation is a good political step for a lot of reasons.

]]> by: wes http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6212 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:10:50 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6212 Amen Spencer and Matt. Very true Spencer, all smaller housing are not created equal. And unfortunately, developers have been way too keen on building condos starting at $500,000...starting?!?! Good thing is, the luxury condo market has been overbuilt and the rental market is on the ups. Housing markets are complex, and a good example is that I forgot another good way the City can influence housing prices: use incentives to keep all the follow-the-buck developers from mindlessly overbuilding the same market because it happens to be a good one at that moment. We could have been offering incentives to build midrise rentals instead of another brix, metropolitan, [insert creative modern urban buiding name here]. Thank you for waking me from another one of my oversimplifications. Amen Spencer and Matt.
Very true Spencer, all smaller housing are not created equal. And unfortunately, developers have been way too keen on building condos starting at $500,000…starting?!?! Good thing is, the luxury condo market has been overbuilt and the rental market is on the ups. Housing markets are complex, and a good example is that I forgot another good way the City can influence housing prices: use incentives to keep all the follow-the-buck developers from mindlessly overbuilding the same market because it happens to be a good one at that moment. We could have been offering incentives to build midrise rentals instead of another brix, metropolitan, [insert creative modern urban buiding name here]. Thank you for waking me from another one of my oversimplifications.

]]> by: dan bertolet http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6084 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:01:47 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6084 Are none of you going to comment on the Spirit of 76 Dodge Dart? Nothing about the irony of the all-American, bicentennial edition, red, white, and blue slant-6 classic in front of the red, white, and blue gas station selling gas at $4/gallon? Are none of you going to comment on the Spirit of 76 Dodge Dart? Nothing about the irony of the all-American, bicentennial edition, red, white, and blue slant-6 classic in front of the red, white, and blue gas station selling gas at $4/gallon?

]]> by: Matt the Engineer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6020 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:22:37 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6020 Oops, I missed the third variable: number of stories. Oops, I missed the third variable: number of stories.

]]> by: Matt the Engineer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6019 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 21:15:43 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6019 //Smaller housing is one type of solution but I’m not convinced it is affordable.// Given a fixed location, you have exactly 2 variables to work with in order to change a location's affordability: size and cost of construction. There have been good debates about how to affect the cost of construction, but the size variable is one that people seem to have a hard time with. Why is size a big deal? Because if you have the choice of building a house or 10 condos on the same lot, the land value of the condos will each be 1/10 of that of the house. You just can't get that kind of value out of cutting corners on construction cost. //Smaller housing is one type of solution but I’m not convinced it is affordable.//

Given a fixed location, you have exactly 2 variables to work with in order to change a location’s affordability: size and cost of construction. There have been good debates about how to affect the cost of construction, but the size variable is one that people seem to have a hard time with.

Why is size a big deal? Because if you have the choice of building a house or 10 condos on the same lot, the land value of the condos will each be 1/10 of that of the house. You just can’t get that kind of value out of cutting corners on construction cost.

]]> by: Spencer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6015 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:43:37 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6015 Wes, Smaller housing is one type of solution but I'm not convinced it is affordable. I've seen many people build and remodel homes to fit Sarah Suzonka's ideology and it wasn't inexpensive. There are a lot of issues to deal with for affordable housing the first of which is where to draw the line in defining affordable? Everyone sees that line in different places but the only one that counts is the one the city decides to back with incentives. Right now that line is 120 to 85% median income. In my opinion that's not where we need to be building it needs to be lower because that's where we are headed economically (that's only my opinion). The median income level we need to be building toward needs to be one projected in to the future and it needs to be conservative. Glorified transit (light rail) alone will not help. Living near a future light rail station and renting I am concerned that my rent will increase due to demand to live within walking distance of a L-rail station. True people need an easy and affordable way to enter the city from more affordable neighborhoods but right now the light rail only takes people to the airport and downtown. That's not doing much more than some of the express buses. With the long construction times light rail needs it should not be considered a "silver bullet". I agree that affordable housing will come from living closer to our neighbors and in clusters because it is less expensive to build when it can be done in large quantities where builders can obtain lower supply costs for materials to construct and goods to furnish. We can not assume that most developers will build to minimize their profits and for public service. What is going to crush our housing supply is if our assumptions about what part of median income people will be living at when the need is met are to high. Then the people we thought we were building for no longer can afford the housing. In my opinion, we also have to take the negative stigma off renting and dispel the notion of the "American Dream" of home ownership. The bank bust going on right now should be one indication that some people should not be owning homes (I am not making a comment on someone's personal choice to sign on to a bad mortgage). Wes,

Smaller housing is one type of solution but I’m not convinced it is affordable. I’ve seen many people build and remodel homes to fit Sarah Suzonka’s ideology and it wasn’t inexpensive.

There are a lot of issues to deal with for affordable housing the first of which is where to draw the line in defining affordable? Everyone sees that line in different places but the only one that counts is the one the city decides to back with incentives. Right now that line is 120 to 85% median income. In my opinion that’s not where we need to be building it needs to be lower because that’s where we are headed economically (that’s only my opinion). The median income level we need to be building toward needs to be one projected in to the future and it needs to be conservative.

Glorified transit (light rail) alone will not help. Living near a future light rail station and renting I am concerned that my rent will increase due to demand to live within walking distance of a L-rail station. True people need an easy and affordable way to enter the city from more affordable neighborhoods but right now the light rail only takes people to the airport and downtown. That’s not doing much more than some of the express buses. With the long construction times light rail needs it should not be considered a “silver bullet”.

I agree that affordable housing will come from living closer to our neighbors and in clusters because it is less expensive to build when it can be done in large quantities where builders can obtain lower supply costs for materials to construct and goods to furnish. We can not assume that most developers will build to minimize their profits and for public service.

What is going to crush our housing supply is if our assumptions about what part of median income people will be living at when the need is met are to high. Then the people we thought we were building for no longer can afford the housing.

In my opinion, we also have to take the negative stigma off renting and dispel the notion of the “American Dream” of home ownership. The bank bust going on right now should be one indication that some people should not be owning homes (I am not making a comment on someone’s personal choice to sign on to a bad mortgage).

]]> by: wes http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6010 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:13:21 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/03/lazy-and-uninspired/#comment-6010 rbj, your example of your coworker is not a good one because he sounds like he is looking for affordable large lot housing, which is different than affordable urban housing. Affordable urban housing means downsizing, not waiting for developers to build giant homes and hand them out for next to nothing. It also doesn't mean waiting for the City to require developers to do so. Though I think the City can play a role in the overall price of housing here, (give us some reliable transit so we can upzone) I am getting sick of hearing about affordable housing from the ranks of the middle class. There is plenty of affordable housing out there. Just don't expect it to come with a huge yard and 4 bedrooms. America's love affair with the single-family detached home is bad for the environment, not a lack of affordable mansions within city limits. rbj, your example of your coworker is not a good one because he sounds like he is looking for affordable large lot housing, which is different than affordable urban housing. Affordable urban housing means downsizing, not waiting for developers to build giant homes and hand them out for next to nothing. It also doesn’t mean waiting for the City to require developers to do so. Though I think the City can play a role in the overall price of housing here, (give us some reliable transit so we can upzone) I am getting sick of hearing about affordable housing from the ranks of the middle class. There is plenty of affordable housing out there. Just don’t expect it to come with a huge yard and 4 bedrooms. America’s love affair with the single-family detached home is bad for the environment, not a lack of affordable mansions within city limits.

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