Comments on: Which Slice To Eat First? http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/ Efficiency is the straightest path to hell.* Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:06:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: gw http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-20038 Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:08:14 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-20038 "I wonder if SIPs are catching on here" Interesting you should pose that question Matt. You included a link to sips.org, which as it turns out is based in Gig Harbor. “I wonder if SIPs are catching on here” Interesting you should pose that question Matt. You included a link to sips.org, which as it turns out is based in Gig Harbor.

]]> by: gw http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-20007 Wed, 27 Aug 2008 00:15:33 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-20007 I wish I knew someone who owns a house actually insulated at or above code minimum! Insulated glass, major infiltration remediation and a heat recovery ventilator are all on my list. I wish you could remodel with SIP's. The thought of how much easier it would be to just build a new house the way I want it just kills me. It's frustrating to see new construction in my neighborhood going up pretty much like it did, well, 100 years ago. OK so you weren't required to have insulation back then, but if you did it would have looked the same. Does anyone else think that not much has really changed? I wish I knew someone who owns a house actually insulated at or above code minimum!

Insulated glass, major infiltration remediation and a heat recovery ventilator are all on my list.

I wish you could remodel with SIP’s. The thought of how much easier it would be to just build a new house the way I want it just kills me. It’s frustrating to see new construction in my neighborhood going up pretty much like it did, well, 100 years ago. OK so you weren’t required to have insulation back then, but if you did it would have looked the same. Does anyone else think that not much has really changed?

]]> by: Matt the Engineer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19887 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:43:50 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19887 Insulation will get you pretty far in our climate. Don't forget about your windows - you lose a lot of heat through them. Go Low-E and consider triple pane for new construction. Blocking air infiltration is another energy saver (I wonder if <a href="http://www.sips.org/content/about/index.cfm?pageId=7" rel="nofollow">SIPs</a> are catching on here), but at some point you'll have a problem with ventilation - the solution there is a heat exchanger on your toilet exhaust to makeup air. Insulation will get you pretty far in our climate. Don’t forget about your windows - you lose a lot of heat through them. Go Low-E and consider triple pane for new construction. Blocking air infiltration is another energy saver (I wonder if SIPs are catching on here), but at some point you’ll have a problem with ventilation - the solution there is a heat exchanger on your toilet exhaust to makeup air.

]]> by: Dan Staley http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19851 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:42:23 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19851 <i>Maybe all that money is best spent on plain-old boring insulation? </i> Yes. Spend some time in a straw bale home or one that is well-insulated (say, R-30 walls) and designed for passive solar (OK, not the best idea in western WA state, but still) and you'll see why. Maybe all that money is best spent on plain-old boring insulation?

Yes.

Spend some time in a straw bale home or one that is well-insulated (say, R-30 walls) and designed for passive solar (OK, not the best idea in western WA state, but still) and you’ll see why.

]]> by: gw http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19784 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:32:38 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19784 So- On the x-axis, the total cost to reach a goal is found by summing the cost per abatement item (area of the bar- cost/ton*gigatons = cost) for each bar to the left of that goal. No? The y-axis is a net cost to the whole economy? Spend money on building insulation and save even more on energy costs. Conversely, throw enough money at Biodiesel to make it sustainable and save only CO2. So with all these "freebies", what's the holdup? This graph caught my attention b/c my own research in alt energies/conservation for my 850sf SFD have repeatedly let me back to the same three strategies: insulation, insulation and more insulation. I am really interested in supporting the burgeoning solar thermal industry with a purchase (taking advantage of the expiring tax credit), but recently I'm having second thoughts- and the graph reinforces that. Maybe all that money is best spent on plain-old boring insulation? So- On the x-axis, the total cost to reach a goal is found by summing the cost per abatement item (area of the bar- cost/ton*gigatons = cost) for each bar to the left of that goal. No?
The y-axis is a net cost to the whole economy? Spend money on building insulation and save even more on energy costs. Conversely, throw enough money at Biodiesel to make it sustainable and save only CO2.
So with all these “freebies”, what’s the holdup?

This graph caught my attention b/c my own research in alt energies/conservation for my 850sf SFD have repeatedly let me back to the same three strategies: insulation, insulation and more insulation. I am really interested in supporting the burgeoning solar thermal industry with a purchase (taking advantage of the expiring tax credit), but recently I’m having second thoughts- and the graph reinforces that. Maybe all that money is best spent on plain-old boring insulation?

]]> by: Matt the Engineer http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19674 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:24:50 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19674 It looks like the y-axis is cost to remove a ton of carbon dioxide, and the x-axis is abatement potential in giga-tons of carbon dioxide. We actually make money on anything under the zero line, and it will cost money over that line (could be subsidy, or we could fairly price carbon). What I like about this chart is that you can easily see how much it will cost to get to carbon dioxide goals (the 550ppm and 450ppm), including an estimate to get to 400ppm (though we don't know how yet). It looks like the y-axis is cost to remove a ton of carbon dioxide, and the x-axis is abatement potential in giga-tons of carbon dioxide. We actually make money on anything under the zero line, and it will cost money over that line (could be subsidy, or we could fairly price carbon). What I like about this chart is that you can easily see how much it will cost to get to carbon dioxide goals (the 550ppm and 450ppm), including an estimate to get to 400ppm (though we don’t know how yet).

]]> by: gw http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19643 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:51:56 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-19643 RE: Dan@9: Yes, LED overheating isn't an issue, but this is only because they were designed that way. So, in a way, it is an issue. No? I was fascinated by the most excellent bar graph above, but I'm still confused. Are there two different measurements occurring on the horizontal axis? What are they? Regarding the zero line on the vertical axis- Dan are you saying/as I read it- items below the line pay for themselves and items above the line would require, say, a government subsidy to realize their abatement potential? RE: Dan@9: Yes, LED overheating isn’t an issue, but this is only because they were designed that way. So, in a way, it is an issue. No?

I was fascinated by the most excellent bar graph above, but I’m still confused. Are there two different measurements occurring on the horizontal axis? What are they? Regarding the zero line on the vertical axis- Dan are you saying/as I read it- items below the line pay for themselves and items above the line would require, say, a government subsidy to realize their abatement potential?

]]> by: Dan Staley http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-13826 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:54:18 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-13826 There's also an interesting general overview in the new CNU Green Council <a href="http://tndtownpaper.com/council/GreenReport.pdf" rel="nofollow">Report</a>, pp 15-16. Not region-specific, but not bad for understandable context either. There’s also an interesting general overview in the new CNU Green Council Report, pp 15-16. Not region-specific, but not bad for understandable context either.

]]> by: dan bertolet http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-13488 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:57:47 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-13488 Spencer @5: I am working on a similar energy analysis and there is very little data available on multifamily buildings in the Pacific NW. I'd like to talk to you about what you're doing. Send me email at hugeasscity@noisetank.com with your contact info. gw @4: Whether it's a fluorescent or an LED, any input energy that isn't converted to light is lost as heat. True that LED output and life drops when they get hot, but my guess is that a typical fixture can absorb enough heat so that it's not an issue. Spencer @5: I am working on a similar energy analysis and there is very little data available on multifamily buildings in the Pacific NW. I’d like to talk to you about what you’re doing. Send me email at hugeasscity@noisetank.com with your contact info.

gw @4: Whether it’s a fluorescent or an LED, any input energy that isn’t converted to light is lost as heat. True that LED output and life drops when they get hot, but my guess is that a typical fixture can absorb enough heat so that it’s not an issue.

]]> by: Dan Staley http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-12455 Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:18:23 +0000 http://noisetank.com/hugeasscity/2008/08/12/which-slice-to-eat-first/#comment-12455 <i>Do you guys know of any good sources for energy usage for Multifamily buildings in the Pacific NW? I’m working on a analysis of multifamily development comparing non-LEED rated buildings to buildings constructed using LEED requirements. </i> Spencer: I'd contact Eric or Clark over at Daily Score or Cascadia Scorecard or whatever they call themselves these days. Anyway, a graphic I like to use is found on pg 148 of <i>Sustainable Residential Development</i> by Avi Friedman. KWh estimated heat loss for SFD: 11754, duplex 11291 (34% reduction), rowhouse 10761 (26% reduction). Another good text is <i>Cities as Sustainable Ecosystems</i> by Newman and Jennings. Do you guys know of any good sources for energy usage for Multifamily buildings in the Pacific NW? I’m working on a analysis of multifamily development comparing non-LEED rated buildings to buildings constructed using LEED requirements.

Spencer:

I’d contact Eric or Clark over at Daily Score or Cascadia Scorecard or whatever they call themselves these days.

Anyway, a graphic I like to use is found on pg 148 of Sustainable Residential Development by Avi Friedman. KWh estimated heat loss for SFD: 11754, duplex 11291 (34% reduction), rowhouse 10761 (26% reduction).

Another good text is Cities as Sustainable Ecosystems by Newman and Jennings.

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